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Part 1
Program #100
Joe Viglione with Suzanne Vega
1999 Visual Radio #100
Suzanne Vega Interview
JV: Visual Radio Program 100, we are
honored to have Suzanne Vega as our
special guest. Hello Suzanne.
SV: Hi.
JV: It's our 100th show.
SV: Congratulations
JV: And congratulations to you on "The
Passionate Eye", a really wonderful book,
published by Spike/Avon. Tell me, how
did it all come together, you're making
records & did they say "Hey, we need
a book?"
SV: No, no...I guess it was after "Luka" became
a hit in 1987, suddenly I found myself with
a lot of offers from people who said "you
know we really like your songwriting and
you tell stories and would you like to write
a book?" and at that point I just didn't have
the time to follow through on any of it. So by
the time I actually got focused on thinking
about a book again it was several years
later,
A few years ago I got a letter from someone
who then became my agent and they said
"would you like to put together a proposal",
and I said "yes", and it kind of grew out of
that.
JV: It's subtitled "The collected writings of
Suzanne Vega" and it truly is collected
writing
SV: Well I love writing and I've written for most
of my life so it did seem like a very natural
thing to do.
JV: And it reads naturally.
Who is Bruce Miyashita?
SV: I belong to a group on the internet, they
had formed themselves before I found out
about it and they had devoted themselves
to writing about the lyrics and stuff like that,
and so I joined this group a few years ago.
And this particular person, Bruce Miyashita
would write essays about my lyrics and
then also about related issues, like Film
Noire, mental illness, or, you know, whatever kind of provoked his fancy.
So he had written an essay called "The Passionate Eye" and I just was stricken by the
title and so I asked him if I could use it for the
title here.
JV: The internet has changed everything.
"Solitude Standing", of course, starts the
book. There's so much to explore here. It
reminds me of picking up The Kybalion
...you can go anywhere in The Kybalion and
read Hermetic philosophy, with your book I can
go anywhere...you don't have to start at the
beginning...
SV: Right. Well, I'm glad you have that attitude
because the thing about this book that I've probably been asked more times than anything
else is "why are there no page numbers..."
JV: That was one of my questions (laughter)!!!
SV: and so..(laughter), that was one of the
reasons why I think was because when I arranged
the book I didn't arrange it chronologically. The
editors and I decided that we should do it by themes because different themes come up in your
life at different times. And I think taking that a step further they decided not to have a table of
contents or any page numbers so you could just
kind of dip into the book any time you wanted.
So you got the spirit of it right away.
JV: I never have notes on my show, everyone
knows that. This being show 100 I wanted to
have notes, I had said "the thing that annoys me
is that there are no page numbers!!!!"
SV: Sorry (laughter)
JV: How can I reference things that I like?
SV: I know. Well, I guess you'll have to either
number them yourself or you'll have to dog ear
them or - ah - put post it notes
JV: So you don't mind if I write in your book?
SV: Oh, no, I don't mind if you write in my book...
I mean you can't write in MY book, but you can
write in your own book if you...
JV: ...my copy of your book...because certain
things hit you and...wow...
SV: yeah
JV: I"m going to keep this for my whole life
SV: OK
JV: because a lot of books you read and...
SV: ...give them away
JV: back to the library or whatever but this is
an important work
SV: Thank you.
JV: Very interesting, usually in someone's book
they may interview a Leonard Cohen, but in your
book Leonard Cohen interviews you...
SV: Yeah, well I thought that anyone who was
attracted to the lyrics might also be attracted to
this particular interview
JV: It's excellent, Leonard's a very important
artist...and you people have this relationship
with your music and...
SV: I mean I'd say to say that we're friends is a
bit too intimate. I wouldn't say that we're really
friends but that we've sort of known each other
over the years at these very odd functions, you
know, I'll meet him at a photo shoot or, ah, I
went to the Juno Awards, which it mentions in
there, to sing a part of his song when he got a
lifetime achievement award...so I see him under
these different circumstances...so it's not quite a
friendship but it's a ...some kind of relationship that seems to go on
JV: You're colleagues
SV: Yeah, I guess so, although I'm a lot younger than he is. I learned a lot from him, so I wouldn't
say colleagues really, he's ...when Rolling Stone
had asked me to pick a mentor to have my picture
taken with I picked him
JV: Oh
SV: And that's how we first met
JV: That's great
SV: It was really fascinating to meet him under
those circumstances
JV: And how did the interview come about?
SV: The interview came about because A & M
records at that time decided for some reason they
thought it would be an interesting idea and the original idea was that they were going to do it for
radio and also for print. And for some reason it
just never got off the ground. I think it was on the
internet for awhile and that was pretty much the
extent of where it had been published - although
maybe it also got published in Europe.
So it was A & M that had commissioned Leonard
Cohen to do this.
JV: Oh wow, so this is really quite a find, then for
fans of yours and Leonard's.
SV: I think so.
JV: As I said, I was going through the book and
you had something on masculinity...
and this was published in Esquire...
SV: Yeah...
JV: and then "Marlene" (On The Wall) comes
right after it...
SV: Yes, well, because, you see, the end of
this one "On Masculinity" today (published
in Esquire Magazine, 1991) they were
talking about this one part here where someone asked me you know who impersonates sex for me, and that's a little bit of a joke because they didn't mean who
impersonates sex for me, they meant who
embodies it,
JV: Right
SV: And at that point so I said my boyfriend and
Marlene Dietrich and that's why it leads into
"Marlene On The Wall"
JV: My boyfriend "A" meaning his initial?
SV: Yes, his initial...
JV: As opposed to your first boyfriend
SV: Right. (chuckles), Right, he was not my
first boyfriend but his first initial was "A".
JV: Marlene, what movies of hers do you like?
SV: Oh I was a huge fan of hers, it must've been
quite a while ago, the one I remember loving was,
I think it was called "A Foreign Affair" (1947/48)
JV: Oh
SV: You know, I think there's a scene in that where she's about to be beheaded or something, they've drawn a sword and they're holding it in front of her face and she chooses that moment
to check her lipstick in the reflection of the sword and I thought, you know, you really can't beat that
moment. I think that was probably the one or
maybe it was "Destry Rides Again"(1939), I can't remember especially, but, there's a few...
JV: Wasn't she in a movie "In The Navy"
or something? She sang a song "In The Navy",
in a navy suit?
SV: I don't remember...I don't remember...
JV: I think that (scene) was re-issued in the
film "Myra Breckinridge" with Raquel Welch.
Myra/Raquel teaches a film class, and there's
Marlene Dietrich, and I just thought "on
masculinity", and there's Marlene in a sailor's
suit...you know
SV: Right, no, the one scene I do remember is
when she's in a tuxedo and she's singing "Falling
In Love Again" and then she kisses this woman on
the mouth which I guess at that point is very risque
JV: Wow
SV:: Then I think later in that film I think she sings
"Hot Voodoo" in sort of a gorilla outfit...which is...
I don't know, you don't even want to get into that,
but...
JV: Ok, so you've exposed yourself with the book,
-you know, "Tom's Diner". I'd hear "Tom's Diner"
on the radio, but unlike "Luka" where I grabbed the lyrics right away, I didn't realize till last night
that "Tom's Diner", I never really grasped the
lyrics till I read it in the book...
SV: hmmm
JV: The melody is so strong...
SV: Everybody thinks of the melody, it's true,
everybody thinks (Suzanne starts singing the
intro to "Tom's Diner"), that's really what sticks
in everyone's mind, and a few people figure out
that it's about breakfast or it's about feeling alienated or it's about, you know, sitting in a diner
on a typical morning, and that kind of thing
JV: It wasn't until I started reading the book that
I realized I never understood those lyrics, it's one
of the only songs for me, ever, that the lyrics
didn't impact me till I read them in the book -
so now we get to the next level - is it OK to ask
the artist what a song is about after you've
read it in their book?
SV: Yeah, sure, I mean you can always ask.
(both of us laugh simultaneously)
JV: OK, Marlene on the wall.
Is she a spy?
SV: Marlene on the wall? Well, she is a little bit,
I mean it was a photograph of Marlene Dietrich that was on my wall, and I thought that the idea
of having a song written from an inanimate point
of view was kind of an unusual one, and that was...So I guess she was sort of acting as a spy if she could've been looking at the activities that were happening in my life, in my room at that point, um, it was sort of meant to be, ah, yeah, as though she were observing and what her judgements or what her thoughts might have been.
JV: So she was counseling you?
SV: Well, if I...If I...ah, yeah, I guess she was,
in a sense...
JV: ha
SV: If I could've, you know, in my imagination, which, of course, is what it's all about.
* * * * *
JV: You put song lyrics in here, and then there's
material from when you were a child.
SV: Yeah
JV: It's wild
SV: I think it's wild - I guess I'd started writing
at a very early age, you know, with the expectation and the hope that one day I would have a book out. So, I carefully kept everything,
oh, you know, and so, yeah, now I get to put it in this collection
JV: Would you mind reading?
SV: No, no, I don't mind...
JV: Is "Night Song" ?
SV: Night Song, OK,
This is actually a song that I had written
when I was about fifteen and my parents really
didn't know what to make of it. They used to call it "The Love Song To The Mother" I guess I was sort of trying to write a Dylan-esque song about somone on the other side of the civilized world... you know...
OK, "Night Song"...
(Suzanne starts reading her poem from the book...)
It's two o'clock in the morning...
(She laughs), "I just found a typo, I'm sorry,
we'll start again...
I't two o'clock in the morning...
(Suzanne reads "Night Song" in its entirety)
...because you can't stop the rising sun..."
SV: ...So what would make you pick this song to
read...
JV: Well, I'm amazed that at age 15 you came up with something that reads like an adult wrote it.
SV: Thank you.
JV: I remember Janis Ian was like 12 years old
and she played in Greenwich Village with one of
my previous guests (author/vocal coach) Jeannie
Deva, they were in a band together, and I'm saying "these girls were 12 years old!" and Janis
hit at 15 with her song...
SV: "Society's Child" - yeah -
JV: I'm just amazed when I see this depth at this
young age
SV: Thank you.
JV: Did you ever think to take the book to grammar schools and high schools and maybe
lecture and...I think it's inspiring for someone
fifteen years old to say like "wow, this woman wrote this when she was fifteen and it's published"
SV: I haven't yet, although my sister's a schoolteacher and so sometimes I go to her class and I hear from a lot of teachers that they'll use the songs in different ways, they'll use "Luka", or a lot of people seem to use "Tom's Diner" a lot of people who teach English, seem to want to use "Tom's Diner" to teach about meter and, ah, because the language is pretty simple, you know. and so they like it for that.
JV: Now "Tom's Diner" - did you have any idea
that anyone was covering it WITH you?
SV: That someone had done that re-mix of it?
Ah, no, I did not, and in fact, it was kind of a puzzle when it happened 'cause it did happen three years after the original song. So I was on
tour promoting "9 Objects of Desire" and all of a
sudden we got a telephone call from my manager
and he said "these two boys in England have stolen your song and we're going to sue them, and this can't happen" and all of this sort of thing and I said "well, let me listen to it', and I listened to it and thought it was actually very funny and very
clever, and a very original idea, it was certainly something I wouldn't have thought of myself, so when I listened to it and I thought "I think it's all
right" so we released it as a single and it became
hugely successful, much to my surprise.
JV: So you released it?
SV:: I asked the record company to release it.
JV: A & M?
SV: Yeah.
JV: So I thought that they had done this on their own and it hit...
SV: They had done it on their own and it was starting to really sell and that's when A & M found out about it. You know, their story was that they had called the record company and that they had
never got anyone to call back. And they decided not to wait and to release it themselves. And it started to just fly out of the stores.
JV: That is wild
SV: it was wild, yeah, it was really one of those
unpredictable things.
JV: And who are they?
SV: They're not really a group, they are two men
called DNA, and one's a singles promotions
guy, the other one's a guy in the studio who just does re-mixes, and they've done a lot of remixes
since then, a lot of really successful ones, like for
Loreena McKennitt, she has one called "The Mummers' Dance" I think, (from the 1997 album
"The Book Of Secrets" Quinlan Road Records) and they did her remix, so....
honored to have Suzanne Vega as our
special guest. Hello Suzanne.
SV: Hi.
JV: It's our 100th show.
SV: Congratulations
JV: And congratulations to you on "The
Passionate Eye", a really wonderful book,
published by Spike/Avon. Tell me, how
did it all come together, you're making
records & did they say "Hey, we need
a book?"
SV: No, no...I guess it was after "Luka" became
a hit in 1987, suddenly I found myself with
a lot of offers from people who said "you
know we really like your songwriting and
you tell stories and would you like to write
a book?" and at that point I just didn't have
the time to follow through on any of it. So by
the time I actually got focused on thinking
about a book again it was several years
later,
A few years ago I got a letter from someone
who then became my agent and they said
"would you like to put together a proposal",
and I said "yes", and it kind of grew out of
that.
JV: It's subtitled "The collected writings of
Suzanne Vega" and it truly is collected
writing
SV: Well I love writing and I've written for most
of my life so it did seem like a very natural
thing to do.
JV: And it reads naturally.
Who is Bruce Miyashita?
SV: I belong to a group on the internet, they
had formed themselves before I found out
about it and they had devoted themselves
to writing about the lyrics and stuff like that,
and so I joined this group a few years ago.
And this particular person, Bruce Miyashita
would write essays about my lyrics and
then also about related issues, like Film
Noire, mental illness, or, you know, whatever kind of provoked his fancy.
So he had written an essay called "The Passionate Eye" and I just was stricken by the
title and so I asked him if I could use it for the
title here.
JV: The internet has changed everything.
"Solitude Standing", of course, starts the
book. There's so much to explore here. It
reminds me of picking up The Kybalion
...you can go anywhere in The Kybalion and
read Hermetic philosophy, with your book I can
go anywhere...you don't have to start at the
beginning...
SV: Right. Well, I'm glad you have that attitude
because the thing about this book that I've probably been asked more times than anything
else is "why are there no page numbers..."
JV: That was one of my questions (laughter)!!!
SV: and so..(laughter), that was one of the
reasons why I think was because when I arranged
the book I didn't arrange it chronologically. The
editors and I decided that we should do it by themes because different themes come up in your
life at different times. And I think taking that a step further they decided not to have a table of
contents or any page numbers so you could just
kind of dip into the book any time you wanted.
So you got the spirit of it right away.
JV: I never have notes on my show, everyone
knows that. This being show 100 I wanted to
have notes, I had said "the thing that annoys me
is that there are no page numbers!!!!"
SV: Sorry (laughter)
JV: How can I reference things that I like?
SV: I know. Well, I guess you'll have to either
number them yourself or you'll have to dog ear
them or - ah - put post it notes
JV: So you don't mind if I write in your book?
SV: Oh, no, I don't mind if you write in my book...
I mean you can't write in MY book, but you can
write in your own book if you...
JV: ...my copy of your book...because certain
things hit you and...wow...
SV: yeah
JV: I"m going to keep this for my whole life
SV: OK
JV: because a lot of books you read and...
SV: ...give them away
JV: back to the library or whatever but this is
an important work
SV: Thank you.
JV: Very interesting, usually in someone's book
they may interview a Leonard Cohen, but in your
book Leonard Cohen interviews you...
SV: Yeah, well I thought that anyone who was
attracted to the lyrics might also be attracted to
this particular interview
JV: It's excellent, Leonard's a very important
artist...and you people have this relationship
with your music and...
SV: I mean I'd say to say that we're friends is a
bit too intimate. I wouldn't say that we're really
friends but that we've sort of known each other
over the years at these very odd functions, you
know, I'll meet him at a photo shoot or, ah, I
went to the Juno Awards, which it mentions in
there, to sing a part of his song when he got a
lifetime achievement award...so I see him under
these different circumstances...so it's not quite a
friendship but it's a ...some kind of relationship that seems to go on
JV: You're colleagues
SV: Yeah, I guess so, although I'm a lot younger than he is. I learned a lot from him, so I wouldn't
say colleagues really, he's ...when Rolling Stone
had asked me to pick a mentor to have my picture
taken with I picked him
JV: Oh
SV: And that's how we first met
JV: That's great
SV: It was really fascinating to meet him under
those circumstances
JV: And how did the interview come about?
SV: The interview came about because A & M
records at that time decided for some reason they
thought it would be an interesting idea and the original idea was that they were going to do it for
radio and also for print. And for some reason it
just never got off the ground. I think it was on the
internet for awhile and that was pretty much the
extent of where it had been published - although
maybe it also got published in Europe.
So it was A & M that had commissioned Leonard
Cohen to do this.
JV: Oh wow, so this is really quite a find, then for
fans of yours and Leonard's.
SV: I think so.
JV: As I said, I was going through the book and
you had something on masculinity...
and this was published in Esquire...
SV: Yeah...
JV: and then "Marlene" (On The Wall) comes
right after it...
SV: Yes, well, because, you see, the end of
this one "On Masculinity" today (published
in Esquire Magazine, 1991) they were
talking about this one part here where someone asked me you know who impersonates sex for me, and that's a little bit of a joke because they didn't mean who
impersonates sex for me, they meant who
embodies it,
JV: Right
SV: And at that point so I said my boyfriend and
Marlene Dietrich and that's why it leads into
"Marlene On The Wall"
JV: My boyfriend "A" meaning his initial?
SV: Yes, his initial...
JV: As opposed to your first boyfriend
SV: Right. (chuckles), Right, he was not my
first boyfriend but his first initial was "A".
JV: Marlene, what movies of hers do you like?
SV: Oh I was a huge fan of hers, it must've been
quite a while ago, the one I remember loving was,
I think it was called "A Foreign Affair" (1947/48)
JV: Oh
SV: You know, I think there's a scene in that where she's about to be beheaded or something, they've drawn a sword and they're holding it in front of her face and she chooses that moment
to check her lipstick in the reflection of the sword and I thought, you know, you really can't beat that
moment. I think that was probably the one or
maybe it was "Destry Rides Again"(1939), I can't remember especially, but, there's a few...
JV: Wasn't she in a movie "In The Navy"
or something? She sang a song "In The Navy",
in a navy suit?
SV: I don't remember...I don't remember...
JV: I think that (scene) was re-issued in the
film "Myra Breckinridge" with Raquel Welch.
Myra/Raquel teaches a film class, and there's
Marlene Dietrich, and I just thought "on
masculinity", and there's Marlene in a sailor's
suit...you know
SV: Right, no, the one scene I do remember is
when she's in a tuxedo and she's singing "Falling
In Love Again" and then she kisses this woman on
the mouth which I guess at that point is very risque
JV: Wow
SV:: Then I think later in that film I think she sings
"Hot Voodoo" in sort of a gorilla outfit...which is...
I don't know, you don't even want to get into that,
but...
JV: Ok, so you've exposed yourself with the book,
-you know, "Tom's Diner". I'd hear "Tom's Diner"
on the radio, but unlike "Luka" where I grabbed the lyrics right away, I didn't realize till last night
that "Tom's Diner", I never really grasped the
lyrics till I read it in the book...
SV: hmmm
JV: The melody is so strong...
SV: Everybody thinks of the melody, it's true,
everybody thinks (Suzanne starts singing the
intro to "Tom's Diner"), that's really what sticks
in everyone's mind, and a few people figure out
that it's about breakfast or it's about feeling alienated or it's about, you know, sitting in a diner
on a typical morning, and that kind of thing
JV: It wasn't until I started reading the book that
I realized I never understood those lyrics, it's one
of the only songs for me, ever, that the lyrics
didn't impact me till I read them in the book -
so now we get to the next level - is it OK to ask
the artist what a song is about after you've
read it in their book?
SV: Yeah, sure, I mean you can always ask.
(both of us laugh simultaneously)
JV: OK, Marlene on the wall.
Is she a spy?
SV: Marlene on the wall? Well, she is a little bit,
I mean it was a photograph of Marlene Dietrich that was on my wall, and I thought that the idea
of having a song written from an inanimate point
of view was kind of an unusual one, and that was...So I guess she was sort of acting as a spy if she could've been looking at the activities that were happening in my life, in my room at that point, um, it was sort of meant to be, ah, yeah, as though she were observing and what her judgements or what her thoughts might have been.
JV: So she was counseling you?
SV: Well, if I...If I...ah, yeah, I guess she was,
in a sense...
JV: ha
SV: If I could've, you know, in my imagination, which, of course, is what it's all about.
* * * * *
JV: You put song lyrics in here, and then there's
material from when you were a child.
SV: Yeah
JV: It's wild
SV: I think it's wild - I guess I'd started writing
at a very early age, you know, with the expectation and the hope that one day I would have a book out. So, I carefully kept everything,
oh, you know, and so, yeah, now I get to put it in this collection
JV: Would you mind reading?
SV: No, no, I don't mind...
JV: Is "Night Song" ?
SV: Night Song, OK,
This is actually a song that I had written
when I was about fifteen and my parents really
didn't know what to make of it. They used to call it "The Love Song To The Mother" I guess I was sort of trying to write a Dylan-esque song about somone on the other side of the civilized world... you know...
OK, "Night Song"...
(Suzanne starts reading her poem from the book...)
It's two o'clock in the morning...
(She laughs), "I just found a typo, I'm sorry,
we'll start again...
I't two o'clock in the morning...
(Suzanne reads "Night Song" in its entirety)
...because you can't stop the rising sun..."
SV: ...So what would make you pick this song to
read...
JV: Well, I'm amazed that at age 15 you came up with something that reads like an adult wrote it.
SV: Thank you.
JV: I remember Janis Ian was like 12 years old
and she played in Greenwich Village with one of
my previous guests (author/vocal coach) Jeannie
Deva, they were in a band together, and I'm saying "these girls were 12 years old!" and Janis
hit at 15 with her song...
SV: "Society's Child" - yeah -
JV: I'm just amazed when I see this depth at this
young age
SV: Thank you.
JV: Did you ever think to take the book to grammar schools and high schools and maybe
lecture and...I think it's inspiring for someone
fifteen years old to say like "wow, this woman wrote this when she was fifteen and it's published"
SV: I haven't yet, although my sister's a schoolteacher and so sometimes I go to her class and I hear from a lot of teachers that they'll use the songs in different ways, they'll use "Luka", or a lot of people seem to use "Tom's Diner" a lot of people who teach English, seem to want to use "Tom's Diner" to teach about meter and, ah, because the language is pretty simple, you know. and so they like it for that.
JV: Now "Tom's Diner" - did you have any idea
that anyone was covering it WITH you?
SV: That someone had done that re-mix of it?
Ah, no, I did not, and in fact, it was kind of a puzzle when it happened 'cause it did happen three years after the original song. So I was on
tour promoting "9 Objects of Desire" and all of a
sudden we got a telephone call from my manager
and he said "these two boys in England have stolen your song and we're going to sue them, and this can't happen" and all of this sort of thing and I said "well, let me listen to it', and I listened to it and thought it was actually very funny and very
clever, and a very original idea, it was certainly something I wouldn't have thought of myself, so when I listened to it and I thought "I think it's all
right" so we released it as a single and it became
hugely successful, much to my surprise.
JV: So you released it?
SV:: I asked the record company to release it.
JV: A & M?
SV: Yeah.
JV: So I thought that they had done this on their own and it hit...
SV: They had done it on their own and it was starting to really sell and that's when A & M found out about it. You know, their story was that they had called the record company and that they had
never got anyone to call back. And they decided not to wait and to release it themselves. And it started to just fly out of the stores.
JV: That is wild
SV: it was wild, yeah, it was really one of those
unpredictable things.
JV: And who are they?
SV: They're not really a group, they are two men
called DNA, and one's a singles promotions
guy, the other one's a guy in the studio who just does re-mixes, and they've done a lot of remixes
since then, a lot of really successful ones, like for
Loreena McKennitt, she has one called "The Mummers' Dance" I think, (from the 1997 album
"The Book Of Secrets" Quinlan Road Records) and they did her remix, so....
